[Jukebox-list] Early stereo jukes and tonearm damping

[Jay Hennigan]

Rick Force wrote:
> Hi JC,
> I have had several 222's and they all had the original red tone arm/ 
 > cartridge and all of them (mechs rebuilt) set down too fast/ hard and
 > even skated in a few grooves to boot. The tracking pressure was
 > correct on them all. I did have to readjust the reset levers on them
 > as this was causing the skating, but they still were too rough on the
 > set down and none of them ever sounded good. My 1958 Wurlitzer 2200
 > sounds a lot better (with the stereo arm and cart conversion) and is
 > very gentle on the record loading. As much as I love the 222, I don't
 > think I'd ever own another. If I were to get another Seeburg, it would
 > have to be a mono one, not anther early stereo version as they sound
 > too bad (I'm not going to put up ugly external spkrs just to try and
 > get better sound).  I think the sound system in those early stereo
 > units was poorly designed. They could of at least added tweeters so
 > you could get decent sound from the juke without the extra expense
 > and space needed for externals. Those "full range" spkrs were not very
 > full range at all, even after reconing them (it did help, but not much).

I agree that the Wurlitzer vertical-play mech from the 1800 through 3100
with a magnetic cartridge modification sounds tremendous.  To be fair,
the monaural Cobra wasn't the best-sounding system either.

The 222 or any jukebox trying to get realistic stereo separation in a 
36-inch-wide cabinet isn't going to sound all that hot.  Seeburg's DS 
with ears had nice ear-level tweeters that gave good separation (if 
you're standing right in front of the jukebox).  I like that in the 
Wurlitzer 3000 as well.  You're right that the 222 is rather limited in 
terms of top-end.

In the heyday of the 222, external speakers were the norm for a lot of 
jukebox locations, and really added to the stereo effect.

At least Seeburg produced "honest" stereo with the channels reasonably 
matched from the 222 on up.  Wurlitzer had a wacky setup with a 12-inch 
speaker (different type) on each channel and a single 8-inch speaker on 
one channel only on their stereo boxes up until about the 3000.

Rock-Ola early stereo jukes weren't stereo at all without the use of 
external speakers!

I think AMI and the Continental II, with proper room placement, did a 
better job than the other early stereo jukes.  Big woofer in front, side 
speakers for left and right with a slight amount of the opposite channel 
out of phase.  With a decent cartridge, placed in a corner, these sound 
pretty darn good.

Of course, early stereo recordings weren't a lot to write home about 
either.  Many of the Beatles and Beach Boys records were kind of 
lopsided with the vocals on one channel and most of the instruments on 
the other.  A lot of "re-mastered for stereo" records were just weird in 
terms of EQ and what came from what speaker.

I have a similar issue with my Seeburg R that could be tonearm damping, 
the "B" side seems to skip the first couple of grooves on set-down. I've 
triple-checked the setup alignment, can't quite get rid of it, and only 
on the B sides.  Monaural arm, and it's navy blue on the "R", but the 
exact same setup is red on the G and W.  This one has a Pickering 
340-03D cartridge.

-- 
Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Administration - jay at west.net
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