[Jukebox-list] Re: Great Sound Of Early AMI's/ Collector Value

Wed Jul 8 11:15:26 PDT 2009

I've been reading all this discussion about how great sounding the 1950's AMI's are. I have one question though:

"Why then is this not reflected in the value"? 

It appears that 1950's Seeburgs, Wurlitzer, and Rockola's usually command a much higher price (over AMI's). 

Also, look at the Victory Glass catalogue: there's only a few pages of parts for all AMI's (and this forum often has people looking for AMI parts, presumeably because they have not been reproduced).

Any explainations from the AMI fans? Is it strictly due to styling or what?

Mike 

-----Original Message-----
From: jukebox-list-bounces at lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces at lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Lala Blah Blah
Sent: 2009, July, 07 11:06 AM
To: Jukebox mailing list
Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: Great Sound Of Early AMI's

Ok some can debate this if they want there are "audiophile people" then are are "wanna-be audiophile people" To me audiophile, means a person who knows what they like and what ever the audio component is its enjoyable to listen to that particular person. An "audiopile wanna-be" is a person who critic's everything but what they like. These people "stereo-typically" judge audio by the price tag and also by brand name and tend to steer away from new ideas that are radical or not proven. (at least that is what I have seen) Also you can't seem to tell them anything unless you prove it with numbers like .0001 percent total harmonic distortion at full volume LOL! I have played with audio for many years and have heard alot of Hi-Fi components. (Please.. if anyone wants to chime in at anytime please do) as the human ear is as different as ever individual we percieve sound differently. I speak for alot of people when I say the early AMI's do sound amazing for  the period but the Model G seems to stand out in the crowd. I have been debating the reason why with many people and have come this this conclusion. The speaker system is Electro-Voice. In all the speakers I have heard in my life they stand alone in quality and sound reproduction. Unlike Cerwin Vega (60 hertz clip in the woofers) they are not colourized. The produce what should be heard. The don't miss a thing.. with all that in mind remember your audio system is only good if there is a marridge in the parts (in short they have to get along and work with each other). The best systems usually are mismatched when it comes to component systems. Also Vacuum Tubes have alot to do with it. Vacuum Tubes were MADE for audio where transistors were not. When the transistor was made in the 1940's it was intended to be used for computers and the likes of.. not audio... when you force or adapt something that it is not intended to be used for you sacrafice  something. In the case of transistors vs. Vacuum Tubes, transistors have a much harsher tone (in most cases), where in ALL case Vacuum Tubes are much warmer. Curcuits using vacuum tubes have very loose tolerances in the parts (capacitors and resistors), the circuits tend to be quite simple. Transistor circuits have parts that are tight tolerance parts, if a part in a transistor circuit goes off value the transistor blows. The transistor circuits also tend to be quite complex. (Please keep in mind I am speaking in a general sence as there are exceptions LOL). Now that all being said the KISS rule does apply to Vacuum Tubes (KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid). Now back to the AMI Model G. The G uses two 6L6 output tubes in push-pull they are way underdriven hense very low distortion. Next it uses a General Electric VR1 Variable Reluctance Magnetic Cartridge (these were one of the first Magnetic cartridges on the scene and were used alot in high end Hi-Fi  of that time) Can you start to see why it sounds so good? Now then we have a great match so far. The pre-amp stage in the amp is of an excellent design as well. Lastly the G does not use a typical speaker enclosure. It actually has the two 8 inch woofers embedded in the cabinet under the horn in the top. I call it an "Acoustic Labyrinth" These speakers face (more or less) downword through a large retanglular port that goes through the back of the machine and out the bottom. This is also the reason the G does not sound very good on a carpeted floor. To get the maximum enjoyment (the sound, particularly the bass response) have the machine sitting on a wood floor. I hope this gives everyone some insight as to why the G sounds so nice. I personally think its the best sound juke ever made.

Regards, Tony  

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, CCOS <ccos at knology.net> wrote:

From: CCOS <ccos at knology.net>
Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Great Sound Of Early AMI's
To: "Jukebox mailing list" <jukebox-list at lists.netlojix.com>
Received: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 1:16 AM

Tony, and others recentltly talking about the great sound of AMI G's and similar early AMI's,

Can you guys put this in perspective for me please? I've never heard one of these jukeboxes but I keep hearing about them. I'm somewhat of an uneducated audiophile. In other words, I'm way better than most people about enjoying sound quality but I can pick it apart, not always put in to words what I don't like about it, much less explain it.

My main question is this: Did those AMI's just sound better than others of the period, or are you saying they have a sound still not replicated today? And please, I'm not trying to dredge up the digital vs analog arguement, or the tube vs transistor arguement.

All I'm asking, is if I am missing out on something because I have not heard one of those jukeboxes, or is the discussion about them more relative to the time they were produced?  Thanks for any insight,

Karl
Columbus Coin-Op Shop
2001 S. Lumpkin Rd.
STE 18
www.columbuscoinopshop.com
Columbus, GA 31903
(706)507-2963
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lala Blah Blah" <oldstuff1967 at yahoo.ca>
To: "Jukebox mailing list" <jukebox-list at lists.netlojix.com>
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Just popping in.

I love those AMI Model G's.. the sound is unreal.. Electrovoice was part and parcel responsible for that! Don't you dare get ride of that excellent machine.. Sell that AMI rowe Jal.. / Jel.. good sound but not reliable.. Rowe killed AMI.. still a sore spot with me..

Regards, Tony

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mechanical Music of S.F. <mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Mechanical Music of S.F. <mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Jukebox-list] Just popping in.
To: jukebox-list at lists.netlojix.com
Received: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:42 PM

Hello everyone!
Just popping in to say hello.

I find myself with little time for jukes, or to scan and reply to the list these days as I'm just busy. Busy, busy, busy. My online VW forum gets 100 -160 posts per day and it's all I can do to keep up with that alone. I hate not being on here, but I can only take on so much. Work also keeps me busy and I'm thankful to be employed in this economy.
I'm blowing off something else I'm supposed to be doing right now, but darn it, I miss it here and I'm gonna get this post written!

THAT all said, I do have some jukebox stuff going on this month all of the sudden, so definitely thought it was worth an update here.

My Rock Ola 474 (Sybaris, 1978) that was on location is getting a fresh coat of paint and being sold. Although it works great, it was never dependable in the coin (jams)/crediting (ROs first electronic credit unit is known faulty) departments and is best suited for home use. I've got a super good offer on it ($650) and am taking it while the getting is good. It has a Rock-Ola Charlie amp rebuild in it that I'll miss. I have another working amp I may put in and keep the Charlie amp. It has his labels on it and I can't imagine parting with it.
The 474 paid my motorcycle parking for my work commute for 2.5 years ($2 a day) plus this last six fifty, so I have no complaints.

I bought a Rock Ola 1442 Junior
Hi-Fi (50 selections). It's in Florida safely at my friend's place and all there. Worked for the lady for years, then just stopped, so probably an easy fix, and the $150 price tag was unbeatable. Only 1500 made. it came up on his local Craigslist and just seemed too good to pass up, even if I have to ship it here.

My AMI G-120 ('55) that is in a used record shop needs to be moved as they had a water heater disaster upstairs and the place needs to be half cleared out for major repairs. No damage to the jukebox, thankfully. I have found a 1950s diner that's begging for it, so it's going back into revenue service for the first time in probably 40 years. I'm a little leery about putting it out, but I don't have the room to store it and don't want to sell it if at all possible. This diner is very popular and all they have is a radio on the counter the owner is itching to get rid of, so it'll be the only source of entertainment.
Before that, it's coming home for a week to have the contacts cleaned and be put through the paces. It's been on static display for maybe 2 years, only being fired up every few months by me.

Seeburg AY160 that I've been sitting on for 2+ years is going on stage as a prop for a couple weeks. That'll get it out of storage and into my garage and hopefully under repair once it's done being a star.

Next up, AMI JAL-200 I've also been sitting on will get finished. Just need to get it put back together.

I hope you've all been well. I'll try to check back in over the next couple days.
I'm officially late getting out, but it's good to be posting.
My warmest wishes to all my old pals here.

Kyle ~
Mechanical Music of San Francisco

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